“I have agonized over this, but I heard it”

By John Miner

Free Press Reporter

FOREST -- Former attorney general Charles Harnick stunned the Ipperwash inquiry yesterday with testimony he heard an angry premier Mike Harris tell a senior-level meeting: "I want the f--ing Indians out of the park."

Harnick told the inquiry into the shooting of native protester Dudley George that providing the testimony about Harris was difficult for him.

"I have agonized over this, but I heard it," Harnick said under cross-examination from Harris's lawyer Peter Downard.

Harnick said he was shocked by Harris's statement at the meeting in the premier's dining room Sept. 6, 1995, hours before George was killed by an OPP officer during a confrontation between riot police and natives occupying Ipperwash Provincial Park.

The meeting was also attended by the province's solicitor general, natural resources minister, deputy ministers, two senior Ontario Provincial Police officers and political staff.

Harnick said the room fell silent after Harris made the statement in a loud voice.

"I was shocked," Harnick testified. "I thought it was inappropriate and insensitive."

When Harris broke the silence after a few seconds, there was a change in his demeanour. Harnick said the premier recognized what he said was wrong.

Harris's next statement was that once the occupiers were able to get into the park, he didn't believe there was any way they could be removed, Harnick said.

When the premier made his remarks about "Indians," Harnick said he was worried he wouldn't be able to convince Harris that the proper action was to obtain a court injunction to have the natives removed.

But Harris and his fellow cabinet ministers did agree with the recommendation for an injunction, Harnick said.

Downard told the inquiry he spoke to Harris about his alleged statement and the former premier said he did not recall saying anything like that in the meeting. Harris will testify to that when he appears at the inquiry early next year, he said.

Downard asked Harnick if it "gave him any pause" that nine other people at the meeting had testified at the inquiry and he was the first to recall Harris making the statement about Indians.

"Do you know how difficult this has been for me? I have nothing but admiration for the premier," Harnick said.

"I heard what the premier said."

Harnick said he is confident the premier's statement had no effect on the later police action.

He rejected suggestions the premier's profanity indicated he was racist toward native people.

Harris was frustrated at the park occupation, but didn't have an animosity toward natives, Harnick testified.

"The premier is a human being. He made a mistake," Harnick said.

Harris was always supportive of his initiatives as minister responsible for native affairs, including the appointment of aboriginals as a judge, to the legal aid board of Ontario and to the province's judicial appointments committee, Harnick said.

Asked by Kevin Scullion, a lawyer representing natives living at the former Ipperwash army camp, why he had never revealed Harris's statement before, Harnick said nobody had ever asked him.

"My lawyer may jump up and throw something at me, but this is something I apprised him of many years ago," Harnick said.

Outside the hearing, Sam George, a brother of Dudley, said Harnick's testimony about the premier's statement was hard to absorb.

"My body took such a rush I still have a headache. It is unbelievable," he said.

Murray Klippenstein, a lawyer for several members of Dudley George's family, said if Harris made the statement, it appears to indicate he had a racist contempt for native people.

But Downard said Harris will testify he has no recollection of saying those words. "We are shaking our heads over this," Downard said.